It all seems so programmed - form but no substance. It leaves kids hanging out to dry with little direction. I have a grandson who was traumatized by something similar.
I definitely think that's true of a number of camps. They've lost the essence of what it means to simply get out in the woods and let God meet you, instead programming it to the point of spiritual overconsumption. I write about this in the book too:)
There are better ways forward! SO appreciate you writing about these things.
It's bringing to mind my InterVarsity days - I realized at some point, maybe during my year on staff there, that we counted conversions but not deconversions. We knew students "came to faith" during our conferences or large group meetings but then later decided that wasn't really what they wanted, or they felt they'd been manipulated into it and it wasn't real, etc., but we ignored the latter and only counted (and communicated to donors) the former...
I never went to a church camp but I was the director of one for four years. When I was there we didn't do a cry night (although they have a "bonfire" service now), but there were plenty of other manipulative techniques. I was never comfortable with those techniques, so my numbers were never good. After four years I left, mostly because I couldn't take the stress. But my time at camp forever impacted my approach to evangelism as a pastor and later prison minister. I refused to give altar calls or have people raise their hands to receive Christ, preferring to encourage them to come talk to me or someone else if they had questions.
This was all before my deconstruction, which began after I'd left active ministry. I still have many moments that I regret from those days. Looking forward to reading your book.
Yup, altar calls, bonfire services, cry nights (or whatever staff called them behind the scenes) were all manipulative stressors. You get all of this, James!
I remember saying that getting decisions was as easy as saying “You don’t want to go to hell, do you?” That also worked really well in prisons. My boss (I was on prison ministry staff at a Texas megachurch) would routinely get 20–30 decisions at prison chapel services using similar methods.
Oof. This analysis of Cry Night at Christian camp (or retreats) is spot on. I remember always feeling such deep shame and anguish after these events — and I coped in really self destructive ways. I have a scene in Famished where I describe one of these experiences. Thank you for unpacking the harm perpetuated in these settings, Cara. This is such important work.
It all seems so programmed - form but no substance. It leaves kids hanging out to dry with little direction. I have a grandson who was traumatized by something similar.
I definitely think that's true of a number of camps. They've lost the essence of what it means to simply get out in the woods and let God meet you, instead programming it to the point of spiritual overconsumption. I write about this in the book too:)
There are better ways forward! SO appreciate you writing about these things.
It's bringing to mind my InterVarsity days - I realized at some point, maybe during my year on staff there, that we counted conversions but not deconversions. We knew students "came to faith" during our conferences or large group meetings but then later decided that wasn't really what they wanted, or they felt they'd been manipulated into it and it wasn't real, etc., but we ignored the latter and only counted (and communicated to donors) the former...
Oh, 100%! Donors (and top leadership) aren't about to count deconversions. It's like it isn't even a part of the equation!
I was very traumatized by those long nights.
I think this was the case for many. I'm sorry it is for you as well.
I never felt like, hey I’m okay I don’t need to repent more. So sad.
I never went to a church camp but I was the director of one for four years. When I was there we didn't do a cry night (although they have a "bonfire" service now), but there were plenty of other manipulative techniques. I was never comfortable with those techniques, so my numbers were never good. After four years I left, mostly because I couldn't take the stress. But my time at camp forever impacted my approach to evangelism as a pastor and later prison minister. I refused to give altar calls or have people raise their hands to receive Christ, preferring to encourage them to come talk to me or someone else if they had questions.
This was all before my deconstruction, which began after I'd left active ministry. I still have many moments that I regret from those days. Looking forward to reading your book.
Yup, altar calls, bonfire services, cry nights (or whatever staff called them behind the scenes) were all manipulative stressors. You get all of this, James!
I remember saying that getting decisions was as easy as saying “You don’t want to go to hell, do you?” That also worked really well in prisons. My boss (I was on prison ministry staff at a Texas megachurch) would routinely get 20–30 decisions at prison chapel services using similar methods.
Oof. This analysis of Cry Night at Christian camp (or retreats) is spot on. I remember always feeling such deep shame and anguish after these events — and I coped in really self destructive ways. I have a scene in Famished where I describe one of these experiences. Thank you for unpacking the harm perpetuated in these settings, Cara. This is such important work.
You nailed it, Anna: shame and anguish should never be a part of the faith experience, yet too often it’s a given. Appreciate your support.